About the HP 820 Windows Inkjet Printer ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- --- Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp.hardware Path: utkcs2!stc06.ctd.ornl.gov!news.er.usgs.gov!jobone!news2.acs.oakland.edu !news.tacom.army.mil!news.webspan.net!newsfeeds.sol.net !news-xfer.netaxs.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com !howland.erols.net!gatech!ncar!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!news-2.csn.net!rjn From: rjn@csn.net (Robert J. Niland) Subject: Re: HELP is the HP 820 cxi inkjet any good ? Date: 3 Apr 1997 01:12:28 GMT Organization: ISP: SuperNet Inc. Message-ID: <5hv05s$hi@news-2.csn.net> References: <333d6423.3458032@news.prestel.co.uk> Paul Nithsdale (pnith@rother.prestel.co.uk) wrote: > I am looking to buy a new inkjet. i am considering the HP 820 cxi or > the Epson stylus color 600 any recommendations or problems with the HP What environment? What uses? Why specifically the 820? Have you considered a DeskJet 69x? Had you pointed your favorite web browser at http://www.dejanews.com and entered "deskjet 820", you would probably have found lots of discussion about it, including many copies of the following... _______________________________________________________________________ Mini-FAQ Edition: 31 Jan 97 I have an 855C, but have been curious about the 820. For those with an appropriate system (which is most PC users), the 820 is a lower-cost alternative to the 85x and 870 models. Hp has a comparison of the 820 and 855 at URL: ftp://ftp-boi.external.hp.com/pub/printers/support_doc/bpd02955.asc and a PPA backgrounder at URL: ftp://ftp-boi.external.hp.com/pub/printers/support_doc/bpd02937.asc and a DOS-Window printing tip at: http://hpcc997.external.hp.com/cposupport/printers/support_doc/BPD03539.html People who are using the 820 in its intended environments appear to be quite satisfied with it. However, a percentage of buyers either weren't aware of the 820's limitations, or didn't understand them. When HP says "exclusively for Windows" and "optimized for Windows" they mean, and perhaps should have clarified that to be: "SOLELY for Microsoft Windows 3.1 and 3.11 ^^^^^^ Microsoft Windows 95 (and 4.0x SPs), and within DOS windows under the above environments." Q: How is the 820 different from other HP DeskJets? Although the 820 has an on-board processor (16 MHz 68HC000), and a modest amount of ROM and RAM (128K), it is far less sophisticated than its 85x and 870 siblings, which have a RISC processor, 512K RAM and full PCL3+ interpreter in ROM. The 820 accepts only raster image data. Sending ASCII data like: Hello World to the 820 results in no useful printing, whereas on other DeskJets it will print "Hello World" in the default font. On the 820 there is no default font, as there is no font ROM on board. The 820 is more of a "print engine" than a "printer". Without extensive HP software between your app and the print head, it does not print. A "driver" is required for the 820 to print. Other DeskJets speak a Page Description Language (PDL) called HP Printer Command Language (PCL 3+). The 820 speaks PPA (Printing Performance Architecture), which is unique to the 820 (at the moment) and for which drivers exist only for Windows 3.1x and Windows 95. All of this is why the 820 is substantially less expensive than the 85x/870 printers. As long as you have a reasonably modern PC, with 8MB or more RAM, and only need Windows (3.1x/95) or DOS-under-Windows printing, the 820 may be expected to generate 85x-class results. Q: Does the 820 work in DOS? Only in a DOS Window under Windows 3.1 or Windows 95. That is, only when Windows is present and grabbing and processing any output ostensibly intended for the LPT port. Stand-alone DOS doesn't have the concept of "printer driver". Applications generally speak directly to the LPT or COM port hardware, and are expected to either send simple character/CR/LF ASCII codes or must themselves generate the PDL of the target printer, PCL in the case of most HP printers, and PPA for the 820. No DOS applications presently generate PPA, and none are expected. The DOS-in-a-Window implementation, on the other hand, presents a PCL-like software interface to DOS apps that are color-printer-aware. I understand the PCL model to be HP PCL 3+, as were earlier DeskJets. If your DOS app doesn't specifically have HP Color DeskJet support, you'll only be able to print in B&W (or possibly screen-dump in color). > Dumb me, I bought an 820Cse without realizing the ramifications of > it's "designed for windows" concept. Surely there has to be a > driver that will allow for simple text printing from a non-windows > DOS environment. Are there any plans for a simple DOS driver. > Anybody know of a third party utility/driver that can provide DOS > print capability with this printer? This is why even today, many new HP printers still include "DOS drivers" for specific applications. These are actually app-specific code to convert the app's internal data structures into the PDL of the target printer. One of the major reasons why Windows was released was to provide a common API (Application Programming Interface, specifically the GDI - Graphics Device Interface) so that all apps could generate complex page images, and not need to know anything about specific printers and their PDLs. The 820's PPA is apparently a very simple PDL, and is nothing like conventional PCL printers. I/O to the LPT is a raster image of the page. The 820 works in a DOS *window* because that is a "virtualized" environment. Windows can trap the I/O stream to the LPT and redirect it - and HP provides a DeskJet class PCL emulator that converts the PCL data stream to 820 raster format. It is in fact possible to print-to-file for the 820, by defining a Connection of type FILE, then entering a filename at print time (say PRNTFILE.PPA) and later executing the DOS command: C:\> COPY /B PRNTFILE.PPA LPT1: The resulting printfiles are reportedly 2x to 3x the size of the same page printed-to-file using the 85x/870 driver. If you print 300 dpi full-page graphics, you need at least 21 MBytes free for the temporary print spool file. Q: Does the 820 work under Windows NT (any release)? No. The 820 data sheet may be unclear on this, but the bpd02955.asc comparison document is not. Where the 855 has "Windows NT - Limited Mini-Driver support distributed and supported by Microsoft", the 820 column says "NONE". Users have confirmed this. Unlike the situation with the other (PCL) DeskJets, there is no Microsoft-supplied mini-driver in NT to even make the 820 function in a less-than-ColorSmart mode. If HP has any plans to support the 820 on NT, they have not made those plans public. I don't know if the 820 box bears the official Win95 logo, but because Win95 application certification requires (with exceptions) that the product also have been tested on Windows NT, many buyers are [incorrectly] assuming that the 820 works in NT. It does not, at all. The Win95 cert program for drivers does not require NT support, but virtually no one outside the developer community knows this. Q. What other operating systems/environments do I need to consider? Summary of where the 820 does NOT or may not work: * The 820 definitely does NOT work at all in: - BIOS mode (pressing [PrntScrn] before an OS boots & in BIOS config) - DOS without Windows (including Win95 DOS "7" BootGUI=0, exit-to-DOS mode and SafeMode command prompts) - Windows 1.0 thru 3.0 - Windows NT (releases 3.0-3.51sp4 and NT 4.0 thru sp1) - Unix - Macintosh - any other operating system which does not provide an exact emulation of a Microsoft Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 device driver environment. * It also does not work with PCL printer accessories, such as HP's own "PrinterPal" FAX adaptor, that expect a conventional printer (one that interprets HP-PCL in the printer firmware). * The 820 reportedly works under "Win-OS/2" (using the HP Windows 3.1 driver software) , although HP makes no claims about it. It reportedly does not work in "OS/2 PM", "OS/2 CLI" or in an OS/2 DOS window. * Networking: The bpd02955.asc document claims "Server Connect, Locally shared and remote Windows in Windows 3.1 or 95". What precisely this means is not entirely clear to me, but the 820 must be connected to the "server" PC, and not directly to the network. bpd02995.asc is quite clear that the 820 does NOT work with the HP JetDirect EX adaptors. * The 820 reportedly works in Windows for Workgroups 3.1 and 3.11, but reportedly only locally, and is not available over a network. * Even in Win 3.1 and '95, the 820 probably works poorly on systems with 4MB or less RAM, and on systems with slow CPUs, like 286 and 386. Unfortunately, the very customers most likely to be attracted by the lower price of the 820 (vs 85x/870) are also likely to have limited configurations that can't rasterize page images with comfortable speed. * As with any printer using bi-directional I/O, like all the current DeskJets, I would be nervous about using an 820 on a parallel port with any kind of mechanical or electronic switch. * The 820 probably doesn't work in WABI (Windows Application Binary Interface) on Unix and similar systems, nor under Soft Windows. This is by no means the first "host RIP" printer, or even the first "windows (only)" printer that has ever been marketed, but may well be the first low-end mass-market winprinter. I do think HP needs to be more thorough in making buyers aware of the caveats. The printed and web data sheets contain essentially none of the above detail, and as you can see, there are as yet several unanswered questions. Regards, 1001-A East Harmony Road Bob Niland Suite 503 Internet: rjn@csn.net Fort Collins Unless otherwise specifically stated, Colorado 80525 USA expressing personal opinions and NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider. ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---